Add the capability to scroll the group content

This looks like an excellent news ! Can't wait to start using it ! Thanks a lot !

1. if it is "by design" (though I can't believe it) then you should hide misleading ScrollBars property from TcxGridLayoutViewOptionsView class
2. while it is definitely possible "to fit it into the view area" no library should impose restrictions on my form's design as you obviously don't know my requirements and needs
3. even your own "Layout and Data Editor" form correctly displays vertical scrollbar in "Template Card" tab
   so please stop denying obvious bug and just fix it ASAP

Hello Vladimir,

1. The OptionsView.ScrollBars property controls scrollbars that are used to navigate through view records. For example if you set the OptionsView.ViewMode property to lvvmSingleColumn, then the vertical scrollbar will appear to scroll records. However, setting OptionsView.ScrollBars property to ssHorizontal, prevents that scrollbar from appearing. So the ScrollBars property is helpful and we do not see any reason to remove it.
2. You are right, we do not know your requirements, but we are here for you to tell us about them.
3. Our "Layout and Data Editor" (Template Card) utilizes the ExpressLayout control to customize GridView layout. The TdxLayoutControl inner structure cannot be compared with the TcxCustomGridView one, because they are completely different.
   I apologize, but this behavior cannot be considered a bug, since it is just a non-existent functionality. We appreciate your understanding.
   Best Regards,
   Paulo

1. ok, that I can understand, thanks for heads up
2. the requirement is to allow me to build my form/grid structure as I want it and if I want layout view to arrange all its items (mine dataset has more than 100 fields and keep growing) in a single "column" (providing neccessary scrollbar) it is your job to supply me (and end-users of mine app) with such properly working control
3. according to ms-help://borland.bds5/ExpressQuantumGrid.bds5/ExpressQuantumGrid/IDH_Class_TcxGridLayoutView.htm "The Layout View uses the ExpressLayout Control's functionality to provide a comprehensive layout management over the card structure" so I somehow fail to see why it should behave differently "because they are completely different"

I'm still waiting for your explanation
btw I stand corrected that "it is not hard to fit it into the view area"
now that I played with the customization form a little in the run time I think that it is virtually impossible to build decently looking UI for layout view containing many items (as 100+ fields in my project) without utilizing scrollbars
so please implement it ASAP otherwise UI looks really ugly

Hello Vladimir,
Thank you for your patience. Let me answer your questions in order:

1. We appreciate your understanding;
2. Our developers have examined this suggestion, but have not come to the conclusion whether or not it will be implemented soon. We cannot give you any time frame at present, because our estimations may be misleading;
3. You are right, the Layout View uses the ExpressLayout Control's functionality to provide layout management. But it does not provide exactly the same functionality as the ExpressLayout Control does;
4. I agree that automatically appearing scrollbars would be useful. I believe our developers will implement this feature in future versions of our controls.
   Best Regards,
   Paulo

2. I can understand that very well and never demand any concrete dates
3. if so then I find "ms-help://borland.bds5/ExpressQuantumGrid.bds5/ExpressQuantumGrid/IDH_Class_TcxGridLayoutView.htm" is quite misleading. instead of "The Layout View uses the ExpressLayout Control's functionality to provide a comprehensive layout management over the card structure" you should have used something along the lines of "reduced" or "to some extent" or "partly", whatever
4. then why status is not "accepted" then?

see Q361181

.

Hello,
Thank you for posting screenshots from the S38561 was implemented fast, good ticket here. They illustrate the scenario more precisely.
Our developers have not made any terminal decision regarding this suggestion. That is why it is still active (it is not rejected).
As for the help documentation correction, I think that LayoutView capabilities are enough to leave the word "comprehensive".
Best Regards,
Paulo

I cannot agree with you on that. with all its rough edges and deficiencies it is rather beta than mature product so "comprehensive" is a bit of exaggeration there
hope they'll make the right decision

Hello,
Thank you for your reply. Of course, Layout view is not so old as other grid views, but I think that its capabilities are too wide to call it beta.
I hope so too.
Best Regards,
Paulo

imo it's simply unusable yet for production

See Also:
  DBLayoutView Scrollbars
Thanks,
Paulo

bump up
mine customers keep asking when that ugly UI will become more user friendly

see attached screenshot to get the idea how it looks like on average user's monitor
draw special attention to those read and green balloons

I know that according to ms-help://borland.bds5/ExpressPageControl.bds5/ExpressPageControl/IDH_TcxCustomTabControlProperties_MultiLine.htm "If the MultiLine property value is False, tabs are displayed
within a single row. In such an instance, they may not fit into the tab control
area. The navigator
bar is used to navigate through pages in such a case" and ms-help://borland.bds5/ExpressPageControl.bds5/ExpressPageControl/IDH_Story_NavigatorBarPositionAndVisibility.htm says that "the navigator bar is only visible when tabs are arranged into a single row (i.e. the MultiLine
property is set to False)"

you do not want to show scrollbars there
you cannot even show navigator bar there

will you please fix such a disgraceful design?

Thank you for your additional feedback. I will show it to our developers. By the way, have you tried the proposed solution (TcxScrollBox) from the DBLayoutView Scrollbars ticket?

in fact that screenshot is very similar to the Q361181-2.png I posted above 10 months ago, so there's not much new in my feedback. just wanted to ping you and remind that there's serious flaw in your components. and no, I had no chance to test proposed workaround for the problem

I looked at Q397301 but couldn't comprehend the idea behind it. what's the point of that TcxScrollBox and Dock Panel?
11 months ago you said:
> Layout View has wide customization capabilities and it is not hard to fit it into the view area. It also has the Tabbed Layout Direction feature that is more convenient
as you can see from the attached screenshots that simply isn't true. in some circumstances (many fields or wide captions) it's impossible to make layout view fit its parent grid area. and tabbed layout doesn't change much as it simply doesn't show all available tabs making end user swear. so it is obvious that layout view simply isn't ready yet for the prime time
it's been almost year since I reported that bug and I had my hopes that you will fix it sooner than later, improve it and introduce all those small and essentials features but to no avail

Hello,
Thank you for your feedback. The TcxScrollBox control provides the vertical scrollbar for cxGrid in the sample project I posted in the DBLayoutView Scrollbars ticket.
As for the requested functionality, it is not implemented yet. It seems that only a few programmers ask for it.

as you can see from the attached screenshots the problem is not only missing vertical and horizontal scrollbars. scrollbars aside layout view cannot show tab headers and RecordCaption properly. do you understand that it is pure bug or will keep repeating "as designed" nonsense?
p.s. I don't care how many programmers ask for it. what I really care about is how many end users of my app ask for it

I am also interested in this issue and honestly, the lack of progress in it's resolving, was one of the reasons of not extending of the VCL subscription. I thought that this negative behaviour is so obvious but apparently not for everyone. To be clear: in generall, your software is at good quality level, but at some aspects you follow in the opposite direction than I and my customers.
As an example I'll use the project you mentioned. I changed the width of the window, so now, not whole width of controlls are visible. Scrollbox will not help in moving through the whole area containing layout views controls. Maybe I'm doing something wrog. If so please correct me.
I know that horizontal scrollbox could be probably impossible as a resolution because you use it for moving through a different records. But on the other hand, me and my customers are in the opinion that scrollbox should be used to scroll the window contents - using it for changing record is far less intuitive.

thanks for supporting, Bertrand. would you mind voting it up?
I believe every tab should individually display scrollbars if it's impossible to fit its items into available view area

Hello Bertrand,
You can use the solution provided in the How to centralise controls correctly in a TcxScrollBox ticket to make both horizontal and vertical scrollbars visible. Attached is an example that demonstrates how that approach can be applied to the abovementioned project.

Any workaround available yet? I couldn't agree more with Bertrand…probably impossible because of the terrible design.

To my regret, I cannot offer you an immediate solution or workaround because of complexity of this request. Please keep tracking this ticket to stay informed of our progress.

Guys,
We examined the solution implemented in our WinForms XtraGrid Layout View (the panning mode) but still tend to introduce scrollbars rather than this mode. Since the implementation might take a while, we recommend that you try Paulo's workaround (see the dxSample2.ZIP file attached above) and provide your feedback.

besides introducing card scrolling capability when there is not enough space to display the card in its entirety you should fix the bug with the tabs that have to be aligned (NOT CLIPPED as demonstrated in my screenshots above) in visible layout view area with showing navigator bar if needed

Hello Vladimir,
I have reviewed your screenshots once again and can only repeat that this behavior is by design at present. Help topics you are referring to in your comment confirm that this navigator behavior is standard for tabbed layouts. As I can see, my solution allows you to manage these tabs without the navigator at all (see the attached project).
I agree that the present behavior is not quite convenient and we are going to change it with future versions of our controls. Meanwhile, I suggest you use our ScrollBox as it is done in my demo.

please do not tell me that clipping RecordCaption and tabs away is "standard" or "as designed" behaviour
and I do not understand how your samples are supposed to solve those troubles

I also filed suggestion to allow showing of navigator bar for multiline tabs, see Q495354

Hello,
My sample allows you to scroll LayoutView cards and get access to all tabs in the grouped layout. Is not it what you want?

I'm using layout view in lvvmSingleRecord mode so I don't need "to scroll LayoutView cards" as I only have single card (or many of them if you count every tab as a separate card) for single record
what about missing (clipped) RecordCaption even when there is enough free space to show all tabs available?

It seems that this is some kind of misunderstanding. Please refer to the project I attached previously. The LayoutView is in lvvmSingleRecord mode, and all tabs and card caption can be accessed by scrolling the TcxScrollBox control. Would you please clarify whether or not this behavior is the one you wish us to implement at the LayoutView level. If not, then please describe your requirements in greater detail. A couple of screenshots would be much appreciated.

as you can see on the screenshot attached there is tabbed layout view put into layout control. despite all 11 tabs fit available visible container area highlighted RecordCaption is clipped (is this correct term?)

now let's shrink available area, all tabs still visible but RecordCaption is almost gone

keep shrinking and at some point you see that the entire layout view got "corrupted". one cannot see some tabs and the tab content also clipped

what I want in situation like this is to always show tabs within available container area without clipping them. and no, I don't want to see some "outer" scrollbar to reach clipped tabs. the layout view should correctly display tabs optionally showing navigator bar for switching between tabs if required. and since in some cases it will occupy many lines to show all available tabs I requested Q495354 in order to limit max number of tab lines in order to leave some place for the underlying tab content
anyway if the visible tab content doesn't fit available display area it should provide embedded (not outer) scrollbars if required to reach all its items put into visible tab

It is difficult to comment your screenshots without having a demo project. As I can see in your images, the card/record layout (both its height and width) is too big to be fully displayed within the content area of the Layout View. That is why the record caption is clipped. If you reduce the card height, the caption should be fully visible. In the context of this ticket we are going to implement embedded scrollbars for the Layout View to have the capability to review the card even when it is too big. The resulting behavior will be very similar to the one in my sample project.

> It is difficult to comment your screenshots without having a demo project
I already uploaded dfm of that form several times. do you want me to attach it once again?
> As I can see in your images, the card/record layout (both its height and width) is too big to be fully displayed within the content area of the Layout View
right, that's the main topic of this ticket
> If you reduce the card height, the caption should be fully visible
let me remind you that I'm asking for this bug to be fixed not for unacceptable workaround
> In the context of this ticket we are going to implement embedded scrollbars for the Layout View
according to your description it sounds like you're not going to fix it the right way
> The resulting behavior will be very similar to the one in my sample project
I'll check it next week to get the idea if my assumption was right or not

Hello,

1. Yes, please attach your project or .dfm here as I cannot find it among the comments in this thread;
2. At present, if the card is too big to be fully displayed within the content area of the Layout View, it is necessary to adjust the content to fit it into the view area. Other solutions are not supported for now;
3. We consider this behavior a functionality lack and are going to implement embedded scrollbars with future versions of LayoutView;
4. Would you please provide us with a couple of images to demonstrate how you want us to change the current behavior? (I assume that embedded scrollbars do not meet your requirements);
5. Please feel free to post your feedback here once you have had the opportunity to examine the behavior of my project with ScrollBox.

attached dfm. more on this later

OK. Thanks.

1. as usually feel free to remove any unrelated stuff from the attached dfm and replace TVClientDataSet with TClientDataSet (or any other dataset of your choice)
2. of course I know the current deficiencies of layout view so there's little point to repeat that "as designed" or "not supported for now" mantra over and over again
3. the term "future versions" is too vague to be of any real use. imo this is serious bug and that proper solution should be implemented asap as a top-priority task
4. how could I provide you with such images? all I have is misbehaving grid and I posted those screenshot above and I believe I already explained what I want to see instead of current mess. OK, let me try this one more time:
   every tab (I mean its caption of course) should always be visible (unless you introduce the capability to limit max number of tab lines and an option to have navigator bar in multi-line tabbed mode);
   if currently visible tab cannot display all its items in its container available visible area it should provide embedded scrollbar(s) _inside_ its visible area. that means that as soon as end user switches to another tab with few items that can fit into available space one shouldn't see scrollbar(s);
   RecordCaption should always be visible as well unless it is switched off;
   long story short: no dubious "clipping" should occur that leads to "data hiding" due to improper UI as in current design. just show scrollbar when appropriate and hide it if it isn't required to see the layout view content